Transflective sunlight readable LCD Displays

[andreas kielb]

It was a few years ago that I first read about transflective Displays and thought they might be great for Steadicam. Transflective technology is basically that in addition to the normal backlight there is a partially reflective mirror layer between the LCD and the backlight. When a transflective LCD is used indoors, it is illuminated by the backlight like a normal LCD. When a transflective LCD is used outdoors or in the sun, ambient light reflects off the mirror layer and illuminates the picture in addition to the backlight. This way it gets actually brighter the more sun is falling on the display  .

http://www.scribd.com/doc/2333857/Technology-Brief-Transflective-Technology

Unfortunately this technology was used for PDAs and Laptops but not for video displays in the beginning. But recently I found out that CarTFT manufacturers build transflective displays with touchscreen and VGA input but also composite video input at reasonable prices (...at least compared to highbright steadicam monitors).

In the meantime I bought a CTF700-SH from CarTFT and I must say it's really amazing. It has a very good picture no matter if it's inside, outside on a cloudy day or in full sunlight. I can't compare it with a Transvideo or Steadicam highbright monitor but it's definitely much better then my Panasonic TC-7WMS1 or a Hummingbird I once saw in full sunlight http://www.cartft.com/catalog/il/870?ci=10

I'll make some pictures of it when sun is shining again but to water you mouth here is a test they made in Death Valley in full sunlight:


http://www.cartft.com/community/Story/death_valley/

There are other transflective displays from different manufacturers but probably all very good:
http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/lcd-display/125588-best-7-transflective-screen.html

Compared to real Steadicam monitors they are lacking underscan, framelines and HD-SDI but the technology for sunlight readability itself is amazing. I'd really like to know if any steadicam manufacturer is actually using it in their displays but I didn't find anybody mentioning it as special feature.

The only draw back compared to my Panasonic monitor is the huge cable with VGA, USB and sound going out of it. I bought the short version of 30 cm length but it's still huge. Maybe I'll hide it inside a 'Breakout Box' mounted to the back of the monitor or I just cut off the cables I don't need....

Use the sun instead of fighting it   

cheers,
Andreas

[Charles King]

Thanks Andreas. It looks to be a serious contender. I will be needing a monitor pretty soon, so i will definitely look into this.

[Nelson Alexandre]

Me too!!!

I was thinking to post some questions about transflective screens here and you just answer them 

How about using them as a focusing monitor to 35mm adapters? Have they the quality?

Thanks

[andreas kielb]

Me too!!!

I was thinking to post some questions about transflective screens here and you just answer them 

How about using them as a focusing monitor to 35mm adapters? Have they the quality?

Thanks

The picture quality is as good as with other standard definition 7" TFT monitors. It's just that it has a much better readability outside. But of course it is still an SD monitor.

I'm afraid it'll take some time before the first HD monitors with transflective screens are available. All steadicam related manufacturers seem to be focused only on highbright displays with intense backlights instead of using the sunlight itself  .

[Nick Walters]

I had forgotten about this post while searching for monitors...I may have to look into this.

Am I correct that these displays don't have YpBpr?

If so:

Do you feel you'd have better results with an HD monitor on your sled? The more I think about it, the more my thoughts wander to the fact that you only need good framing abilities from a sled monitor, thus the need to see it in the brightest, or lowest of light. It seems to me that accurate focusing, zooming, and iris shouldn't be attempted by the Operator, but remotely by another person, and perhaps with a higher definition monitor.

I was thinking of going with a custom display from Manhattan LCD, but it seems like the need for HD isn't as important as having a crisp readable display.

I think the 7" and new 10" they are putting out look awesome :
http://www.cartft.com/catalog/il/869
http://www.cartft.com/catalog/il/1022

Have you ever considered using a Ypbpr to VGA converter to perhaps get a little better resolution from the unit? Or am I chasing after fools gold, as it were, in my assumption that such a thing would help?

[andreas kielb]

I also think that the most important thing is that the monitor provides a clear picture under all circumstances. Another issue is the price, though.

To allow a better signal I thought about using the VGA input of my CTF700-SH and searched for HD-SDI to VGA converters. They were all quite expensive (around 1000 Euros) and I also wasn't really sure it'll work at all. What if the resolution isn't supported in the end, there is a jitter in the picture or no picture at all...?

After reading about the new low cost Redbyte downconverter I made my decision and bought it for 350 Euro. It's a HD-SDI and SDI to composite converter. I'll have the first opportunity to test it on Wednesday with the RED. Composite video also has the advantage that I can use my wireless video transmitter.

YpBpr never seemed necessary to me because it's possible to set the HVX-200 and all cameras I know with YpBpr to output composite video. HD-SDI is more an issue because some cameras (RED, Thomson LDK, Panasonic Varicam) are HD-SDI only because they don't have an integrated downconverter. Recently I worked on a cooking show with a Sony EX-1 and though it has a internal downconverter it can't output HD-SDI and composite at the same time...

[Nick Walters]

The reason I mention YpBpr, besides the fact that my camera outputs this, is that solutions for conversion to VGA are quite inexpensive....it appears the market for SDI just isn't large enough yet for cheap solutions....ypbpr though is a common format from DVD players, HDTV boxes, game systems, etc. so a converter to VGA can be found as cheap as $60 USD

I can't seem to find a manual for this specific product, but in it's E-bay listing it mentions that switching between specific resolutions for output statically is possible, while the input can be anything from 480 upto 1080...and one of the listed output resolutions is 1024x768, which is the Cartft's maximum input resolution. Of course the physical is still only 800x480, but I think you'd be using more of the screens resolution abilities at say 720p(1280x720 down sampled to 800x480) vs. 480 composite(704x480{I'm unsure of the exact output any camera puts out over composite) upsampled to 800x480)....I suppose all you could theoretically gain is a few lines of resolution in the horizontal, so as I said before, perhaps I'm chasing after fools gold, as it were.

Here's the link to the product I'm speaking of...although perhaps such a thing has applications with other screens, both transflective and non-transflective:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120372999328

One worry of course is how the signal would look after it went through an external converter, then went through the screens converters, to finally be outputted to 800x480...who knows if it would be acceptable.

[Nick Walters]

This might be one of my silliest posts yet, but using the above mentioned product with this one:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/484640-REG/PYRO_AV_PVC_930_HD10DAC_Multi_Rate_10_Bit_HD_SD_SDI.html#specifications
Could perhaps give one the ability to have hi-def in any situation, regardless of camera...as long as it had HD-SDI or YpBpr...of course that's alot of equipment to wire up, lol...two converter boxes as well as the screen, haha.

It's definitely cheaper then 1000 euros to output HD-SDI to VGA though....seeing as all of it would come in around 350 euros

[andreas kielb]

You are very fast in doing you research. This might work well though you are right saying that both converters are a lot of equipment. I think I'll be happy for the next time using my small Redbyte if necessary and a PAL signal.

But I just recognized another usefull feature (or better characteristic as it's probably not intended at a consumer device) of the CTF700-SH . The picture is almost underscan. That means that it shows the complete picture that is captured by the CCD and more than there will be on the television screen later. This feature is generally only used at broadcast equipment or real steadicam monitors and allows to see lights or grip equipment before it actually appears on the screen.

[Nick Walters]

That's very cool that it does this, I find I'm usually upset by certain displays showing it, and some not....often you can't be sure unless you do all the research to study the internal electronics, or just plug it in and test it.

I don't have the money to do the research at the moment, but sometime in the future I think I'll buy both of the products I mentioned above, and remove them both from their enclosures, and see if I can effectively combine them in one enclosure with one power supply. If only I could find a decent sized transflective HD display, it could become a all inclusive solution...

[andreas kielb]

If only I could find a decent sized transflective HD display, it could become a all inclusive solution...

The optimal size for me is 7", I think. Everything else seems either too big or too small  . HD will probably take a few years as transflective technology is only used for entertainment devices at the moment.

[Nick Walters]

The optimal size for me is 7", I think. Everything else seems either too big or too small  . HD will probably take a few years as transflective technology is only used for entertainment devices at the moment.

Yeah, I actually played with the notion of sticking a 16" LCD TV to my sled for all of 2 seconds, but luckily the beer started to wear off 

I've actually back tracked a bit on displays, and have started to re-visit the notion of using video goggles. I can get a pair pretty cheap, along with a video transmitter/receiver. I think the whole solution should come in under $200 USD. This way I can have some sort of display now, and further down the road when I have enough money, buy a display to actually mount on the sled. I'll probably start a new thread about the goggles as soon as I square away the details.

I sent an E-mail to Manhattan LCD asking if they would ever consider making screens with transflective tech, but haven't gotten a response yet.

[Michele Coser]

Noone got some news about those transflective monitors?

My lcd is almost broken and i need a new one sooner, better a sunlight readable one if i'll find it.

[andreas kielb]

Unfortunately I still can't compare my new transflective Display with a Transvideo or Steadicam highbright because I don't have access to them.

However, I think it's at least as good or better then all backlight TFT's I remember having seen in direct sunlight (...my Panasonic TC-7WMS1, an older Transvideo model and a Hummingbird - these examples are quite common for steadicam use and do produce readable pictures as well, though).

Not to speak from other monitors with poor anti-glare where the whole sky is reflecting and that are total crap outside...

In the meantime I cut off the cables I didn't need from the 30 cm breakout cable and added a lemo plug. Now it's alright for me cable wise.

[Vladimir Korshunov]

Just today had funny occasion to see transflective monitor,  installed  in new cash automat. It was very bright and clear under the strait sunlight. An hour after watched green-black. Hard to say which one is better.