IBC 2008 review

[Charles King]

Ok, thanks for the info guys. Keep adding 'till you have enough...now that is a new slogan.

[Pierre Laigle]

Hello,

I am the manager and developer of L'AIGLE. We had a great IBC 2008 show, great contacts, in particular with professionnal operators, who tried our systems and found it "impressive". Nice to see open-minded people in the realm of Steadicam.
It was all, during those 5 days in the RAI of Amsterdam, only positive.
But now, I stumble against this review here. We are a "Not-Steadicam" stabilizers manufacturer for 5 years now. So we are used to this kind of sick jokes and little minded, misinformed assertions.

Here are the answers to the real interested questions of Charles King, lost among the jokes and falsities:

The "rubber" is in fact hyperlelastic Latex : a special process during the vulcanization of the latex makes it amazingly resistant and provide the arm with an impressive smoothness and silent functionning. The "LTX" straps are 10 years warranteed.
The load capacity of the arm is given by the number of LTX straps you place in. There is no other adjustment mechanism. So no play, no noise could grow with the passing time. And it works absolutely fine. Just give it a try and stop the jokes before you tried or even saw it!
The LTX arm suspension system is worldwide patented.

Yes, we are doing something original, in the technology and in the design. We don't care that people like Job or Erik don't like it. This guy stood 3 meters away from our stand, never approaching the system, never trying to understand anything, just laughing like a big teenager. We don't manufacture our products for this public. But we understand that the fact we propose a 4500 Euros system, that does exactly the same image than a 100000 USD, in the hands of a skilled operator of course, is a problem for those who paid there system on credit, still pay for it every month, and compete for certain jobs with operators who bought an AIGLE cash and start making profit on the fourth shooting. Of course, they just cannot be pleased. Hence, this stupid laughing.

But we had also some bright operators, who "quietly" tried our systems, undestanding that the era of 100000 USD rigs will quite soon be over.

We also had the visit of Garrett Brown, followed by a pack of people. He looked at the LTX arm with interest and just said "I see that it works". Of course, he knows better than anyone what he's talking about. A great mind deserving respect - which is very rare to encounter.

[Erik Brul]

Hi Pierre,
First of all, thanks for compairing me with a teenager, wonder why i did put haircolour paint in my hair last week just try to cover the grey hairs...
Second, i'm sorry if you found my laughing disturbing.. i came to your booth with a positive mind, just like i visited all the other brands outthere with a possitive thinking !

But it was very interesting to see what it took to give Job a goofy style setup.. it took indeed 3 guys if i remember correctly to put the arm on/off the vest. You were shaking Job from left to the right and for and aft like he was almost turning into a milkshake. That moment was very funny and it still is when i thinking back to that moment..

And last, i find it brave to come to a show like IBC even with the already mentioned flaws in the system. I have operated in the past 1 year a Magiqcam system. It had the same sled design when it comes to a NON moving gimbal, so static balance / droptime was done by extending the post. Only extending that post was NO problem with moving parts and NO play between the post parts. As long as your system has that problem.., well.. 

Looking forward to see you guys next year !!

Best, Erik

[Pierre Laigle]

Job, I'm comparing our systems to a 100000 USD only to say that the result is the same. Now, of course, we can't offer for 5660 Euros (our full options price) all the features of a 100000 Dollar rig. But we offer everything to operate comfortably and get the job done. IT WORKS, for Christ's sake.

Please understand that it requires a lot more efforts to achieve a perfectly functional product with an attractive price, rather than manufacturing THE perfect rig, whatever the price, and then sell it with a 500% margin or more. This, actually, is very easy.

What is silly is this posture of yours, judging after 5 minutes, what's good or wrong, distributing fatherly awards or reprimands, never trying to understand. What makes you thing you know better than us what is a perfect rig ? We are just not on the price segment to afford every existing features. If they would all be there on our 5660 Euros System, we'd be bad at one thing only : business.

About the connection of the arm : the arm was brand new, out of the factory. It's normal that one has to run a new mechanism in. Besides, we just unscrewed and screwed on the other side the part, for you to operate goofy. This wasn't done properly. Hence, the fact we had to disconnect the arm, set the part correctly and then connect it again with no problems. Period. But I remember your face and looks to Erik. Like I said : you never try to understand, you think you know, prompt to laugh and mock. This is my point about the few bright operators, like Chris Fawcett who also tried the system, in compare to the many others.

Of course, we are looking for comments and feedbacks of operators, those who use our systems every day and others. I thought your visit at our stand was friendly, before I read your review here and heard you tone.

By the way, a Pilot flies 5 kg, a Flyer 8 kg, not 15 kg.

Erik, I don't quite get your point about the double extension post of the CONCORDE, one up for the camera, one down for the base module ? After trimming, you lock the post in the desired position and that's it...
I read you review about the Sachtler systems, and all the problems. I know from a client in Belgium, who had his "spring canisters" changed for the third time now, that it still doesn't work properly. So why are you so soft, indulgent, comprehensive with Sachtler and obvious problems, and so contemptuous with L'AIGLE ? Because Sachtler is expensive ? Because we are doing something original ?

Next year at the IBC, we will exhibit a new, "expensive", full options system. Compare this one to yours!

[Erik Brul]

Pierre,

Whatever i write down in a review has nothing to do with any price tags for the systems. I already stated that i have operated (and started) with a Magiqcam system. At that moment in time i was only thinking about the coolness of a 'steadicam' system and the price of it. So i bought that system via Ebay. The way they designed that system was on a cheaper base that other brands. So no moving gimbal, only extending post below the gimbal. The arm was springy but when loaded with the 15lbs payload, it was flying nice.

A year later i visited the IBC and this time only with interest in Stabilizing systems. I tried Glidecam, Sachtler, ABC & Steadicam.  I didn't look at any pricetags, just trying out all the rigs available. Within my budget and market, the V25 of Glidecam, the Flyer from Steadicam and the DV PRO from Sachtler were the systems which had my interest.
After serious thinking, 2 extra days of flying 30min or longer on the IBC with these 3 systems, i made up my choice and ended 5 months later up with the Flyer and after 1.5 year a upgraded new Flyer.. and now, who knows .. 

Once again, i approach all current and new stabilizer brands with great interest and i'm purely interest in the way they operate. If the design fails on a certain point it doesn't have to mean the whole system is not right..
In your system a particular important point is still that locking the post BELOW the gimbal did NOT lock the post at all. This is what Job means by camera pointing to the left and batt base to the right after doing some quick pans.
Job mentioned this several times, as i recall you tried with both hands to lock the parts above and below the gimbal, even with some 'sound' which indicate to me you put a load of strength into it.. still it shifted.

I must be honest, not you or one of your colleagues asked me if i want to try it, job did.. but after his and my 3 meters away experience (how the hell did i took all these pictures with job his iphone  i thought, nope.. i have seen enough, maybe next year ? It was however nice to see that Garrett Brown and Frank Rush shows their 'interest' in your product..

Finally,  i'm certainly NOT soft, indulgent, comprehensive to a brand like Sachtler. I described several times in short reviews that i did NOT like the Arm which comes with the DV Pro, it feels sticky sometimes. I DID not like the Vest, mounting the arm is almost impossible alone.. All these remarks are written down and also stated to and noted by Curt who is the designer of Sachtler. In case of Sachtler you pay some % for the brand alone..   i do like the sled and told several people that a combination for example a Artemis Sled and Flyer Arm is a very very nice combination !!

Btw, looking forward to your mentioned : new, "expensive", full options system. Compare this one to yours,
i will do that, but have to buy a new system first...

Best, Erik

[Pierre Laigle]

Whatever i write down in a review has nothing to do with any price tags for the systems.

That is exactly the problem. You can't, or shouldn't, compare a 5660 Euros System with any 100000 USD System, without taking the price under consideration. I'm glad, for all operators, that a Steadicam Ultra or a Pro has features that our Aigles does not show (yet) and that they get something in return, when spending 20 times more money.

What we heard, most of the time at the IBC, from operators, is : "Impressive for that money". We try to offer every indispensable feature for the smallest possible price, that is : a lightweight and sturdy all aluminium construction, a lockable topstage, ultrasmooth micrometric adjustment knobs, an easely removable camera plate, an inbuilt accessories mounting bracket, J-boxes with BNC video composite, component (optional) and 12V connectors, a post with double extension from 44 to 130cm (17"-51"), an unique gimbal fork integrating the bearings of both the X and Y axes for highest precision, a gimbal with zero friction double main bearings, double V-mount battery modules with very easy dynamic balancing, and others...

We seek quality, above the reasonable price. We aim at being the right choice between high-end motion pictures rigs (Steadicam and a few others) and low cost rigs (Magiqcam and a lot of others). Please understand it's the hardest path. And we are really trying hard. Give us a break - or a chance !

See you next year, Erik.

[David L. Holmes]

Job, I'm comparing our systems to a 100000 USD only to say that the result is the same. Now, of course, we can't offer for 5660 Euros (our full options price) all the features of a 100000 Dollar rig. But we offer everything to operate comfortably and get the job done. IT WORKS, for Christ's sake.

Isn't this like saying a Smart Car can perform the same job as a Lamborghini?  Sure they both have 4 wheels, an engine, a radio, and a leather wrapped steering wheel, but they are not classed in the same league of performance...

Pierre, having a "brand new arm from the factory" you should have made sure that it performs well in front of customers and not just make excuses for why it's not working properly.  Arguing with your critics will not make your product better in their eyes.  Take the complaints, judge what is valid, make the corrections to your system, keep it the same price and show up next year with a better system!

There is no better way to get back at a critic then to take away all they can complain about

[Job Scholtze]

Ah, i see your copying the comments on the steadicam forum to put it in here. Well, heres my latest comment to you. And stop accusing me to talk bad about cheaper systems. I was a glidecam operator for many years, and to be honset, your system dasnt even come close.

if i look at equipment, i will inform others what the + and minus of that system is. people like kurt from sachtler, pro, xcs, glidecam, and of course steadicam with there fine team, take that very serius, and come back to you via email . Trying to get there stuff even better, and to be honest, the make a lot of great stuff. Yes it comes with a pricetag, but it also comes with great equipment that works at every level. The wont ever call you "not Bright" as the know we do this for a living. But have it your way, stick your head in the sand. I for one, am not, and will continue to discover every new type of stabilizer, as its my life, hobby and income. Its always good to discover the man behind the brand. I just did now, i know enough, and i know what to advice a newbie who asks me wich route to go.

Have a nice day

[Pierre Laigle]

Isn't this like saying a Smart Car can perform the same job as a Lamborghini?  Sure they both have 4 wheels, an engine, a radio, and a leather wrapped steering wheel, but they are not classed in the same league of performance...

 Take the complaints, judge what is valid, make the corrections to your system, keep it the same price and show up next year with a better system!

I'd say, more like comparing a Porsche Cayenne to a Rolls-Royce or a Maybach. Both drive perfectly, but you find a lot of features in a Maybach that just does not exist on a Cayenne.

Noted. But in this case, I hope you will have understood that there is no corrections to make. Only a run in. And this is not an excuse, but an explanation. But yes, we ought to be more careful in front of customers, considering the efforts necessary to explain things and the little credit given to a company which is soon manufacturing stabilizers for six years. Every day, the whole year, we are working on it. Don't you think we have a knowledge of certain things ? Besides, our Generation 4 products are no "work in progress", but the outcome of all those years.

This conversation reminds me of those, in french forums, of our beginnings. Funny - sort of !

Job, I took your comments seriously at the IBC, as I thought it was friendly, or at least "neutral", hence useful. But read again the aggressive and mocking review you made the day after. You've been contemptuous and we should take it with a smile ? Look at you when you're treated the same way. Anyway. Have a nice day too.

[Charles King]

Erik, why no pics of the X-22? BTW, since Glidecam is doing an upgrade of the V-25, will they discontinue it in the near future( heard this from someone else but personally I do not think so)? They still sell the V16 series, right? Why would they put the v-25 out of commission so quick?

[Erik Brul]

Sorry, was so 'smart'  to go three days without a camera  Futureplans for Glidecam, i cannot answer that.
On their website they still seems to sell the V16/20 rigs.., but when they off. start with the X22 in production, they will stop selling them i think. Just like Pascal mentioned earlier..

Best, Erik

[Charles King]

You're forgiving..

[Charles King]

Still trying to figure out how they get so many small springs in one small arm and get it to lift an enormance weight.... I'm talking about the Actioncam. I guess I will have to wait until next year to test fly one.

[Arthur Dobbe]

I encountered this thread just now. I was at IBC for two days. Before I had used the Merlin for about three months. Since it is not ideal for my 2.5 kg camera I was looking for a light vest system.
Went first to Tiffen. Some of their sales guys explained me the difference between the merlin with arm and vest and the pilot and let me try the pilot. Definitely a nice system, but a little over my budget.

Next was Glidecam. Boy, what a disappointment. I talked to the Dutch reseller, who seemed very reluctant to talk to me even though there was no one else around at that moment. He briefly showed me the new X10 system, but when I mentioned I was interested in buying one, he just told me to make an appointment with their office. Never offered me to give it a try.  That's not what I came to IBC for.
I wondered if I just talked to the wrong guy, so the next day I went to their booth again and talked to another guy, with more or less the same experience. If they give you this kind of service before you buy, it makes me wonder what their after-service must be. So Glidecam was of the list as well.

Last one I visited was l'Aigle. Totally different experience. They were very enthusiastic to demonstrate their stuff and let me try it extensively. I felt like it was relatively easy to use. Last day of IBC I came there again and bought one of the MDV demo systems. I think their model has a good value-for-money, and their after-service has been very good also.
I can't say anything about their heavier rigs since I didn't try them and I have no reference to compare them anyway.

[Jolink Pascal]

Next was Glidecam. Boy, what a disappointment. I talked to the Dutch reseller, who seemed very reluctant to talk to me even though there was no one else around at that moment. He briefly showed me the new X10 system, but when I mentioned I was interested in buying one, he just told me to make an appointment with their office. Never offered me to give it a try.  That's not what I came to IBC for.
I wondered if I just talked to the wrong guy, so the next day I went to their booth again and talked to another guy, with more or less the same experience. If they give you this kind of service before you buy, it makes me wonder what their after-service must be. So Glidecam was of the list as well.

Wow, I sure hope one of those guys wasn't me...  I do know the first guy though, and your assumptions are correct; it was unlikely you were going to buy anything through his dealership, so he gave you the cold shoulder...