Another Stabilizer Comapany to hit the market - Movcam

[Charles King]

People, I like the debate that is going on but please don't let it get outta context. I understand everyone is entitled to their opinion but  lets keep it civil please.

job, I don't think he was implying what you thought he was implying. I think it was more leaning to wards the technological aspect of the different inventions that they came up with. With all the ripoffs that have been going on through time or  we can just stay within the realm of the film industry or better yet, the Steadicam; if we point  the finger to one we might as well point to all the others. Steadicam, being the first. Then Pro, Glidecam, XCS, etc etc.... The list goes on but what it all boils down to is the quality and innovation that will aspire a company forward. I have way less experience than Job and Constantine so I will not even venture into that territory. I learned a lot from Job, who is a fantastic operator and dedicated to the cause. I can somewhat understand what he is saying, as well as Constantine. But the fact of the matter guys, is this sort of thing will be bound to happen. It's just a matter of endurance in the field of this business.

The design factor of the Steadicam is a ingenious concept that Garrett came up with and it's a design that is really hard not to duplicate. This is simply due to the physical constrain that the design was meant to work within. I think Garrett had tried many versions and concepts and eventually ended up with the ones you see today. If there were many ways to achieve the same results with another design, that is compact and portable than you would have probably seen it by now. The fact is, it's hard to do it any other way than what Steadicam has already done. Then again, I could be totally wrong...

[constantine tirint]

Its ok to desagree sometimes hey?

Ok. about the rip offs.Lets say these particular rigs were working.
The big rig they pull out is of what I see a BM vest or a FM vest. I agree its a copy the BM but is it patented?
Secontly their arm is a 3A like arm looks so much better than any 3a out there ,if it was working ok,is that patented? Doesnt GLIDECAM whose rig you owned and being an instructor have this design?
Third the sled, different design, different stage, different batery lower section. Is that patented?
As far as I can see in that rig if it was and say was because I trust Howards words and respect him, they have done what other companies like glidecam, did and sell it as they did, if you call that a rip off then you have to call a rip off what glidecam did.

As for the lower rigs with the flyer like arm design yes that is a rip off they should do something about it or even maybe redesign a different arm for the rig that works then the rest off the rig again is aqs much a rip off as anybody elses apart tiffen.

Finaly about the prices. Again if they were workable decent rigs the big rig I have a price from them for 17500 euros. I dont think that is a bad price for a film rig if it works well and have all the features you need for film or video.
Also the Knight 202A seems to lift 16 kg of camera weight. in the price of 7500 euros.
Now if it worked again well and with a 12/24 power suply you could use that for many film cams, hd, heavy video cams of any kind.
I dont think the flyer does that nor the V25.

i also believe that soon enough there is going to be an operator that also designs and with their facilities and engineers cause they are certainly are educated people out there, they will pull out a few rigs that will be very good and cheaper not dead cheap but just cheaper.
Then all they need is customer support and dealers around the world with customer support.
This wat they will be a great help to people who want to buy a good rig and dont want to waist money in smaller rigs like I did many years ago buying an sk2 for 15000 euro only to discover that there was no service it was full of defects with engineering problems That I could even solve with out even study engineering just common sense.
Want a few?
Green screen design- outer cage that if you take it apart you need to be Huntint to put it back together.
Electronics of it every few months there was a burn out cause little bolts were con=ming off inside and create electric socks, you should see how the screen is kept on place, no connectors and a cruppy bracket that shakes the monitor while walking with crappy lock bolts
The post now that is an adventure, long screws inside and all the way up to keep the bracket connectors to the lower module with crappy connections , once they come off try and put them back together.
Inside a plastic cable connector for power.
The stage, ahh not as rigit even with light cams, all kind off shakes , cruppy locking meckanism with a knob that if you are sweting you cant turn tide nough and you end up using pliers only to be safe until you damage the thing.
I wouldnt exacly call that a tooless stage. not to speak about the wires going through.The gimbal certainly a lot of play and poor machining, the only good thing was the one of special bearing inside it .
And the arm ahhh tiny blind screws to keep the links not falling apart that they get loose and once you try and tide them they get damaged like butter, elbows that break because of that, stiff arm to vest connector,
and viewable poor machining I mean with the eye not with a magnified crystal.
The vest was ok ha ha not as rigid but ok.
So back then I did a big mistake. Now these days Iam glad people who start have so many options.And cheaper options too.
Job I have been in the bussiness as long as you have, my country situation is crap not that I didnt make mistakes but the gigs pay dont help you buy something that costs 45000 euros, with additional 40000 for special components like the allien, so  YOU STACK WITH A SMALL RIG , and you rent rigs for big film cams .
So you can pay your morgage too.
Some guys here made it  the rest run around like crazys and I am not into that anymore.
I can do all kind of work and I depent on this to make a decent living.
One thing I never regret to the old sk was that it made me become a better op.That is because when you become good with this anything else you fly above this is honey.
Forgive me again if I sounded funny, didnt mean to, I know get it that you were talking in general, you see we connect with foregh lanquage so that creates sometimes heat out of nothjing.
I do stant for cheaper but decent rigs from anywhere in the world as long as they can keep their promises.
But then again CP didnt for years only to be bought off tiffen after so long and painfull time.
Regards
Constantine

[Charles King]

Good read Constantine. BTW, the BM by Klassen is not patented.

[Leigh Wanstead]

Hi Job,

I know this since I was a kid and that is the reason I did not publish the photo of my product before while I was develping my product even lots of people urged me to do that. The people you mentioned will just simply take it away and sell under their name and make profit and claim better than you. And they will say that you are not protected under patent. Even protected under patent, what can you do? Pay lawyer?   I simply do not have the resource to compete with such rip off. Each design cost lots of money and I work hard and save money to develop my idea.

Regards
Leigh

Well, if you work at the IBC, and you see chinese bussy making pictures amd asking folders. 4 month later, the sell copys of your rig. How would that made you feel?

[Job Scholtze]

I have to agree with all your comments. Hence the SK2, i owned 2
And yes, the Glidecams are ripp offs too. Even the Nexus i have is a ripp off, EVERY steadicam is a ripp off from the design Garret did. Even Garret ripped it from some guy started in 1890 ore something like that.  ( i guess he get his ideas from that but i am not sure )

I only hope the market, also my market, wont get flooded by cheap ops with cheap rigs. Thats all. I rather keep it exclusive. Its not something you rent out for 365 days a year. Also the prices you get as an op isnt that good anymore. Now, if the rigs get cheaper and cheaper, you can bet that producers will know that, and start nibbeling the rig hire too. ( nibbeling means lower the rates for hire equipment )

I started operating 10 years ago, it took me a long road to get where i am now. To be honest, the V25 is way to cheap in my opinion, i wish the didnt make it for that price, on the other hand i am happy the made it for that price, so other people can afford one. See where i am getting too? Its dubble feelings. I have to protect my way of living, and let others make a living.

Uptill now, i have no complaints, to much work. But it took me and some others a lot of effort to get the producers, television compagnys and other production compagnys to like and love steadicam again.

Becose i feel the market is getting more bussy with new ops, i am trying to get the Netherlands going for the AR. Gonna take another long road, but i know i can do it. Untill other compagnys step in and make cheaper options, there goes the market again

[Leigh Wanstead]

i am trying to get the Netherlands going for the AR.

I thought that AR will cost around US$60,000 and that is lots of money, right? BTW, are you sure your g50 arm can support such ar configuration?

[Job Scholtze]

Nope, thats why i am selling the G50 to buy an G70

[constantine tirint]

I can see your point of you.The AR is a very expensive and sofisticated add on the steady world.
But you will have to charge its benefits .
I wish you good luck and a new AR soon.
Constantine

[constantine tirint]

Hey Job.  Marry X-mass and a happy new ye-AR. ha ha ha

[Job Scholtze]

LOL, thx, you too.

Lets hope i can get there in 2007. And i wish you all lots of jobs, but not in the Netherlands

[Eran Dan]

HI Job: What did you mean by "To be honest, the V25 is way to cheap in my opinion, i wish the didnt make it for that price"?  Is it  a Cheap product? built cheap? cheap price?
I think the v25 work well   but who am I again that can make an opinion with a little experience.
Thank's
Eran.

[Job Scholtze]

Meaning that the rig is to good for that price. Meaning, you did a great deal.
How are things Eran?

[Eran Dan]

Doing good Job, every day I'm flying the v25 I can see how much more I've got to learn. my luck is that I can combine my crane work with the v25 so it works good for me.
Take care and keep posted
Eran

[fred joswick]

Aloha Fellas,

I'm gonna just provoke thought.

A lot of corporations are farming out work to other countries.  The allegiance is not to a country but to a Corporation.  Most of the time large companies are actually part of a bigger company which is part of a even bigger umbrella company.  So the chances that any one item made in any one country from beginning to end doesn't always happen.  In fact its happening less and less all the time.  I worked with Schick Razors one year and they invited and payed for all there top production corporate employees to come out to Hawaii for a corporate party.  Let me tell you... Talk about international corporation is an understatement!

Some products are not even made in country that the corporation head quarter office resides.

Here is something even more amazing in a few years back, brand name clothing companies were having there cloth made in Saipan.  The manufactures were putting a "made in the USA" label on it.  AND IT WAS LEGAL!  because Siapan was at that time ( still is?) an USA territory.  The crazy thing was this....  They were shipping in works from China with the promise of work in the USA!  OMG how is that!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7543104430091001172&q=saipan+clothing&hl=en

So maybe Steadicam (Tiffen) has these guys manufacture there equipment and/or parts? Tiffen is pretty much an umbrella company now adays as well.  They host many companies - stroboframe, Domke Steadicam etc.  Maybe this is a company under Tiffen or maybe under the same umbrella company that Tiffen is under.

Next thing I would like to point out is, currently the world is divided into 10(?)  trading sections including NAFTA, EU, APEX (Asian Pacific Exchange), AU etc.  All of which host MEGA CORPORATIONS which control any international trade.

So to me.... Made in China ohh well...   I doubt any of us are driving a car, wearing cloth, shooting a video camera or using a computer  that is entirely made from beginning to end in one country (consider all the electric boards, LEDs, plastic etc.).  Thats just modern day real world life.

Other note worth mentioning-
Remember the artist uses many tools and is not considered the artist because of the brand of tools he/she uses (granted in our industry you may get more work if you say I use a G-70 with a  Masters sled).   PC vs Mac, Sony vs JVC or Coke vs Pepsi just tools. Companies hire us because of our talent but sometimes talent is a high price to pay and companies have the option to select a less expensive not as talented person(s)/company based on budget.

Aloha,
Frederick

[Tom Wills]

I can almost certainly say that Movcam is not building Steadicam's parts. No real question there. Sure, probably some of the chips, or LEDs, or even LCD panels are probably made in China, but Movcam is decidedly not just a company selling unbranded Tiffen parts.