Another Stabilizer Comapany to hit the market - Movcam

[Tim Le]

Sorry to tell you this Frederic, but Charles is correct. Garrett has several patents registered with the U.S. patent office, the European patent office and the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO). They cover a lot of things, including the original iso-elastic Master Arm, the Geo arms, the Merlin and the Flyer arm. All of them are still in effect because patents generally last 20 years and even the oldest patents were only issued in the mid 90's. If the arm you are selling has a vertical spring adjuster you are most likely infringing on one of Garrett's patents (but don't take my word for it--you really should consult a patent attorney).

As for Movcam, I still don't like them. They aren't just copying old ideas, they are copying current, patented ideas. The motive is obviously to undercut the market and make money by providing a mostly identical product at a lower price. That's fine if the patent has expired, but that's not the case. IMO, there are lots of ways to make money in this world without having to resort to using other people's ideas that are still protected.

[trung dau]

heheehe,
Vietnamese doesn't like the copy from CHina. Cause in our country there r several kind of Chinese copies of Japanese motor bikes. THe first copy motor bikes was imported from China has really good quality and cheap. BUT later and later the quality is going down and down. I remember a friend of mine riding about 30 for 40 km/h and then something happen, can u imagine that  the front wheel follow different way of the bike ? luckily  he was ok.  MY mechanist said the steel from China is about half price, but the quality is really really bad. He has allergy to Chinese products .

[Charles King]

heheehe,
Vietnamese doesn't like the copy from CHina. Cause in our country there r several kind of Chinese copies of Japanese motor bikes. THe first copy motor bikes was imported from China has really good quality and cheap. BUT later and later the quality is going down and down. I remember a friend of mine riding about 30 for 40 km/h and then something happen, can u imagine that  the front wheel follow different way of the bike ? luckily  he was ok.  MY mechanist said the steel from China is about half price, but the quality is really really bad. He has allergy to Chinese products .

The wheel. Good thing he is still alive.

[frédéric Savard]

Thank you for you clarify,

but to invest for a company is expensive, the advertisement, the prototypes, the installations, the inventory. Then it is necessary to be knew in 100 % not to break the laws of the market.

[Charles King]

Thank you for you clarify,

but to invest for a company is expensive, the advertisement, the prototypes, the installations, the inventory. Then it is necessary to be knew in 100 % not to break the laws of the market.

So what exactly are you saying Frédéric?  I'm confused at your response. Please clarify. We are talking about the patent protected spring adjustment issue not coporate investment. Please clarify my friend.

[frédéric Savard]

I simply mean that with such investment he would have been ridiculous not to know about laws which protects patents to forbid us afterward to sell our systems of stabilization.

[Charles King]

I simply mean that with such investment he would have been ridiculous not to know about laws which protects patents to forbid us afterward to sell our systems of stabilization.

Well, you are still avoiding the subject matter I had started before about you using the vertical adjustment. Do you have a pic of your vertical adjustment so I can take a look please? I am just trying to help in case you are infringing on his patent, that's all.

[Leigh Wanstead]

I think all products sold, used in USA will be governed by usa patent law.  We must respect patent holder.

Regards
Leigh

[Charles King]

I think all products sold, used in USA will be governed by usa patent law.  We must respect patent holder.

Regards
Leigh

Yes, but the patent can also be extended to other continents as well and that's what Garrett and his team has been doing or done.

[Phil Kindred]

If you look at the patent on WIPO, it pretty much covers everywhere.  And justifiably so--it is an ingenious design and unique.  Some countries like China and Russia do not or have in the past not honored patents.  The company I work for has parts made in China and one company there has copied the entire machine and sells it.  What can you do?  Sue, I guess, but that will take a long time.  The Steadicam patents would, I think take less time, since it is a niche market and not aimed at the general public. 
Profiting from anothers work and ingenuity is unfortunately a long tradition, but it does not make it morally right.  You can change a mechanism 10% and call it new, dodging the patent.  If you look at the GEO mechanism, you think "Oh that's how it works--pretty simple".  Except GB spent years figuring it out and does not deserve to be ripped off.  Nor does anyone that comes up with a new way of doing things.  From what I have read, the Movcam is
not a quality device despite it's looks.  Maybe it will be someday.  Maybe we will have $200 G-70's.  But that is not now nor likely. 
If I could afford it, I'd buy a Tiffen in a heartbeat.  The best in my opinion.

[Leigh Wanstead]

From what I have read, the Movcam is
not a quality device despite it's looks.  Maybe it will be someday.

If someone steal money from someone else, it does not really matter how rich is that guy. Same applys if someone steal the work from others, it does not matter how good the quality he can make.

[constantine tirint]

One thing though.
The 2 big systems they sell  dont infrige with any patents.
The arm is a 3 a design, which has been expired, the stage is different, the sled and gimbal is different the fm vest is an ordinary vest that most in the bussiness make, only the bm is a copy and I dont know if that is under patent.
As for the smaller systems i agree.
As for the quality, I think a lot of things been said with out first trying the equipment, and that is not fair.
This - I heard think - I dont like.
As for changing a few things and dont infrige with the patent, thats what most of the big boys do as well in some cases, and they call it improovment which in some cases are, but still.
We ll see what will go on.
Constantine

[Tim Le]

I have to admit, they do have a nice sense of design aesthetics. Most knock-offs don't even care about making stuff that looks good because making things look good cost more money.

If they didn't directly copy certain elements like the BM vest, Flyer arm and no-tools socket block, I would have had a much more favorable first impression of them. But once they did that, it just left a bad taste in my mouth no matter how good their other products are.

I know why they copied those elements, though. They're just good ideas and it's hard to resist using them. The Flyer's spring adjustment is still probably the most elegant and simple way to do that function. Personally, I can't figure out a better way to do it. But then again, I'm not that clever so maybe one day another company will.

This is why I really admire companies like PRO-GPI. When they designed their stage, gimbal and arm, all of it was fundamentally different than the 3A and Master rigs at that time. It wasn't just about getting around the patents, but actually being clever, innovating and making things better.

[Charles King]

Point made Tim. Beautifully said.

[constantine tirint]

The no tools socket block? dOnt every company uses this at the middle high end rigs?
The back mount yeah but is this patented and finaly who is going to say what happened between daniel and walter?
Wasnt that an original thought of Daniel first?
Yes the one spring design flyer is briliant. They shouldnt go with it or if they did they should make it in some other way so they dont infrige the patent.
About patents now.
I know its not fair using somebodys work to make money on.
But tell me this.
Lets say, tomorrow I have this great idea and I want to patent it.Now Iam an ordinary person that makes average euro for my work. I live in greece also. So who is going to tell me how much money I need to patent my idea and in what extent. Who is going to help me protect my project and in what way?
My country? naaoohh they dont care. Where can I get these money?
So is great ideas protection only for wealthy rich brains?
Another thing.
Why a screw adjustment kind of form is a patent? is that something never being used anywhere again?
Why a spiral cable down the post is a patent? Dont you rockers used spiral cables playing your fenders and gibson quitars few dozens years back?
I can list loads of examples that your grand father used to play with in his garage .
So whats the story here. Games they mix with rools and orders and layers and stuff you can just laugh at in some cases.
When you go through all these there is nothing left in your brain to exite you and you just want to give up.
I have thought many times to start a bussiness making stabilisers.i HAVE A TOTALY DIFFERENT XY  stage, 2  designs for arms, a hand held but still absorving steps stabiliser and even a high to low mode design on the fly different than the allien.
I certainly cantafford to patent them, so what do I do?
I deside to makethem real just for my self? or sell them until someone stills them?and even he can register for a patent I gave birth too?
Havent you seen that back in history happenning?
What Iam saying is that is a game that some can afford some cant and its nothing to do with how clever you are or creative.
And sometimes some people have one moment which can be just that moment and not another that can have  THE briliand idea, and that goes for the inventing thing story.
So over all what Iam saying that there is an anfair world for everyone here good invantors bad inventors poor invantors and thats where copiers get the chance to act, and they dont care, also cpmpanies dont generally care, if they can make money by finding a way round it they do it and they have the layers to stant for it in court.
Guys I dont think there is much honesty left at all in the money making business , in goverments giving founds and money to certain people, in banks, all around you . Dont be surprized when someone breaks the loyre so obviously.
Last thing I want to mention is this.
I have seen it before in forums there is a racist thing going on, like for instance cant the chinese think for them selves, bla bla they just copy with no brains and so on.
So what are they only good enogh as workers in factorys inside their own land getting small or no payment for their hard and I mean hard work?
Now they have the chance, they learn they are good learners , if they werent they wouldnt almost take over the entire market today and certainly educated and inteligent human beings.
Whos playing fair now these days hey? every country looks to bennefit for them selve and now it the time for the chinese to do so. Each one look back at your history and you will find out how much dirt has been splashed around for own interests.
fair is not very objective for a long time now.
I hope I didnt bored you or uset you itsjust some thoughts of mine and I might be wrong.
Take care
Constantine