24p

[cody carson]

hello all, im sorry if this is a bad section for this question, but it seemed to be the best fit. i got in discussions about this on a different forum, but everyone here seems to be a lot more knowledgeable. i am wondering about the whole 24p mode on the cannon xl-2, as i have used it and deffinately like the look a lot better.  now, when exporting this video footage onto a computer, is there any way to capture it as 24 frames progressive with no pulldown?  then keep it that way all through editing, and burn it as 24p on dvd so it will play back like a normal dvd movie?  it seems that when i try to capture, it turns it into 29.97 with pulldown, and then, if i edit all the footage, and remove pulldown later, won't some clips start with wssww and some will be sswww or however that works, basically the clips wont all be in a perfect pattern, so some will get the pulldown removed improperly, is what i think has been happening... do you follow?  i have premeire pro 1.5 and just want to know if i can totally bypass the whole pulldown crap.  any help would be much appreciated, thanks alot!

[Justin Snodgrass]

I can't be a huge help here since I use FCP now... but until another replies....

This link deals with Final Cut Pro, but breaks down the basics and can apply to any NLE system.

http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/24p_in_FCP_nattress.html

I haven't used Premiere in a while, but you should be able to set your project to DV-NTSC 24p (which is 23.98). It would seem that if you captured the footage with this setting, had your project in Premiere set to this, and had you export setting the same... you shouldn't have to do anything else.

I know that Premier 1.5 claims to be panasonic 24p/24pa compatible. I would assume that this means any 24p camera, but I'm not sure.

I also saw this at http://www.adobe.com/support/techdocs/326544.html

"Premiere Pro 1.5 automatically detects and removes pulldown during the capture or import of 24P and 24PA footage."

Hope this helped.

-Justin

[cody carson]

okay i think i can get it to capture and everythnig as 24p, and edit it then without having to do the whole pulldown removal deal, but what i don't understand is that if you burn this 24p footage to dvd, do dvd players add pulldown to it so the tv will play it?  becaues if you click through frame by frame w/ the dvd in a computer,you will be able to go step by step exactly 24 times for every second of video... which is why i want to know if you final product will not be film, can you still use the 24p video on dvds an such?

[Justin Snodgrass]

Many, if not most/all hollywood movies on DVD are 24p. So any DVD player should play them.

Take a look at this post:
http://www.uemforums.com/2pop/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=35670&Main=35569

[Alan Dague-Greene]

I believe that a standard DVD player will do pulldown on the fly. Don't quote me on that, but I think that's the case. Because 24p has nothing to do with NTSC, so the player wants that framerate back at 29.97.

[Justin Snodgrass]

Below is from http://hometheater.about.com/od/beforeyoubuy/a/progressivescan_2.htm

Progressive Scan and 3:2 Pulldown

In the preceding paragraph I outlined the manner in which film is transferred to video, however, since this process is accomplished within the NTSC interlaced video environment, the question remains as to how to display this accurately on a television. This is where a progressive scan DVD player with 3:2 pulldown detection becomes important. Basically, in order to see a film in its most correct state, it should be shown a 24 frames per second on either a projection screen or a television screen. So, in order to do this, the DVD player needs to be able to reverse the 3:2 pulldown process that was used to put the video onto DVD and output it in its original 24 frames per second format. This is accomplished by a DVD player that is equipped with an special type of MPEG decoder, combined with what is referred to as a De-interlacer ( such as the Faroudja DCDi ) that reads the 3:2 pulldown interlaced video signal off the DVD and extracts the proper film frames from the video frames, progressively scans those frames, makes any artifact corrections, and then transfers this new video signal through a special connection on the DVD player. This connection is known as a Progressive Scan Component connection, which is most commonly labeled as Y, Pb, Pr.

I think I'm getting confused now.

[cody carson]

aaahhh.. me too.. this is my hypothesis.  you import the video to your computer as 24p video footage, on a 24fps timeline... edit and then burn as a 24p dvd.  i am almsot positive all dvds  that you buy are 24p, so any dvd player should play them.  i think all this "you dvd player has to have a super mgeg decoding blah blah blah" is junk.  they always talk about how the dvd player has to be special and stuff, but ive burned tons of different format dvds and never had a problem so i guess ill just burn 24p dvds from now on. if anyone knows what the deal is w/ all this format junk is, please inform us better.

[Justin Snodgrass]

My brother-in-law uses a progressive scan DVD player with 3:2 pulldown detection for his home theater. I "think" that this player knows when a DVD is 24p and works some magic to maintain the film like feel. A normal DVD player would not do this. I think the point is that it will play on any DVD player and look fine; and like most all DVD's, it will look even better on a progressive scan DVD player with 3:2 pulldown detection. I would assume that most festivals that accept DVD format have this type of player as it sems pretty standart among home and digital theaters.

I think your plan is perfect.

[cody carson]

so what your saying, a 24p dvd, such as one you buy plays on any dvd player, but on a 24p dvd player it will just look more like a film prjector?

[Justin Snodgrass]

Yes, that is what I have gathered from reading and asking my brother-in-law.