Front or Back-mounted vest???

[MikkoWilson]

Interesting stuff, and thoguh great for backpack design, it doesn't apply to Steadicam.

With a backpack teh load is behind you, with a Steadicam it's in front.  - In fact, with that analogy of the conneciton otne same side as the load, a Steadicam shoudl be front mounted, but that's flawed. The only place where the attachemnt point from the vest to us is, actually matters is to how our body distributes the weight.
And teh Natual way for our boy to do this is my using the system of muscles and tendons to spread the weight, not by pressing directly on the spine as so many backmount vests do.

Also consider how we are designed to get prenant (or what happens when we get fat), by having the weight out front supported by muscles and tendons. The natrual stresses ont eh byd from pregnancy are very similar to those created by a good front mounted vest, and a very long leap from how a backmounted vest works.

- Mikko

[Job Scholtze]

Well, as a owner of both vests i'll chime in here.

I use both vests an a daily basis. It all depends of the work i do. When i do concerts for long hours, i prefer the bm. Why? No more pain. Easy lock offs and no more pain in the shoulders, neck and or back. With the old fm, i tighten the lower part real tight anyway. With the bm there is no need for that. + You breath much easyer. Also the operating position in my case is much better. I stand up more then before. Also i noticed when using fm for long hours, you are gonna stand in the wrong positions to avoid the muscle pain. With bm thats impossible. My lock offs are so much better and it made operating easyer on a lot of projects.

On steadicamforum Rob made a nice example about the standing positions. Let me try to find it.

[Charles King]

Of coarse they are many advantages to a BM which seems to be where folks are heading. But one one I would not do is build one...I rather buy it or rent one. I'll certainly give BM another try when my rig is finished...which is almost...

[Charles Papert]

Jerry Holway has the strongest anti-back-mount voice that I can think of--he maintains that it actually makes no difference where the point of attachment is, that the effect is the same (but the added torque from having the long support arm just adds negative factors). I've heard him describe and demonstrate his theory a few times,  and it's convincing enough, but having used a backmount for the past 4-5 years (on top of the 17 before that with various front mounts, of which only the PRO vest was anything less than uncomfortable), I'm inclined to believe that my body is far better off for it. A long day in the backmount results in at worst fatigued legs; the front mount sometimes left me sore in the hips and other unwanted spots.

This all said, it is much harder to build a backmount system that is properly fitted to one's body. The advantage for a lower-weight rig is that this seems to be more critical. Once you get up into the 60lb and up loads, I think the potential flaws in the design start to magnify. I went through three different designs of Klassen harness before I settled on the one I use today, the other ones were quite uncomfortable to me.

[Charles King]

Great info CP. Thank you. Well, it is a personal thing. When I tried it for the first time, it felt weird and little awkward to say the least. I guess if I start wearing it more often it might be a little different but I cannot afford it. So it is still the front mount for me. Longer periods must be an advantage to have it. You've said you went through many before residing to the one you now have. What were the weird or negative attributes to the ones you tried and the one you have now?

[Charles Papert]

The older Klassen designs had a sort of square front, where the hinges came off at rigid angles. Then he came up with the curved front piece which was the one I liked and kept. I felt pinching at the hips with the old ones which I don't feel now. Some people have experierenced pressing on nerves in the leg causing them to go numb, I had a bit of this early on but not in a while. I do know a number of guys who went backmount, swore by it, and have since gone back to their front mounts.

I always say that in an vocation that is marked by very personal tastes when it comes to equipment, nothing is more personal than the vest and how it feels and works on the body.

[Charles King]

I always say that in an vocation that is marked by very personal tastes when it comes to equipment, nothing is more personal than the vest and how it feels and works on the body.

So true CP. So true.

[Tom Frisch]

I know from the various sports I've done, that often times a beginner will find something very uncomfortable, but after getting used to it, it works out just fine.  (whitewater kayaks, racing bicycles, climbing shoes). 
Also, it often seems like the more high-performance the equipment, often the less comfortable it is.

Do those concepts apply here?

[Charles King]

I know from the various sports I've done, that often times a beginner will find something very uncomfortable, but after getting used to it, it works out just fine. (whitewater kayaks, racing bicycles, climbing shoes).
Also, it often seems like the more high-performance the equipment, often the less comfortable it is.

Do those concepts apply here?

It is very much an individual feeling than anything else. Of course it helps that the BM is made well and made to fit in some instances but not all works well for everyone. So, yourquestion if it applies here, does not hold here.

[Olie Walker]

Hi,
just want to add my experience with both BM + FM.

Ive flown the steadicam flyer for a while now which is FM, i flew it for a whole day, 6hours continuouis shooting with a 30min break after 3 hours most recently.
The weight of the sled i was flying was about 7kg total.

My lower back is prone due to injury 5/6 years ago lifting an engine would you believe... so twinging it is very easy to do, and shoulder mounting really hurts me.. so after flying the FM vest, i wasnt aching the next day (compared to when i shoulder mount the camera!!)

Ive recently got the magic arm which comes with a BM, im at 80% of modification to this rig to get it to fly well and having used it recently i do find the weight distribution round the hips nicer feeling to me.

I prefer the design of the flyer vest though and its much slimmer, if i could make this vest but with BM i would be happy.

But...

Having the arm attached round the side makes it bulky and i really prefer the way the frount mount comes out and is easy to pull it close, you know how wide you are with a FM, but with a BM you are negotiationg another 6 inches on your side (with socket block, adjustment pins etc..)

Oli

[Charles King]

Everything varies with the type of scene you will be shooting. For longer takes and heavier camera setups with all the bell & whistle, the BM would come in very handy. Then again, before the BM longer shots were still achieve by the ops they wore them for hours...GOD!!! The 'Spot'...a real killer

[Olie Walker]

Definetly Charles...
a FM can feel just as easy to fly as a BM and if the operators stance is good and setup properly it will be fine i guess slightly less feedback from BM  ... ill wait until ive shot 3 hours on my BM when i get new springs and let you know.

i have to practice my posture, there is a shot of me flying and i have a lean on backwards to balance not good!
Ol

[Frank Piccolo]

I've tried a handmade back-mounted vest.

It's confortable but after some time I had pain to the neck. I think for a non correct posture.

The front mounted seems better for my need.

Frank

[Charles Papert]

The evolution of stabilizer vests has taken years in both front and back mounted iterations. The first front mount vest I used that felt "perfect" was the PRO vest, but that came after years of trying different Cinema Products vests from Model 1 to 3 to Master's series to third party. I tried the KLassen back mount vest a number of times while it was going through its evolution and didnt like it until the curved front model that is most popular now. Both the PRO and Klassen units are semi-custom for each customer (the pads from the PRO and the hard shell on the Klassen) which ensures a good fit

The bio-engineering on both is the result of a lot of research and trial and error. It does seem that it is "easier" to make a front mount vest than a back mount, which requires more molding to the individual's body or stress points may occur. I've tried various manufacturer's "one size fits all" back mounts and haven't liked any of them. Even the Klassen has had a number of defectors over the years, guys who loved them at first and then went back to the front mount (generally because they experienced numbness in the legs, possibly from wearing it too low).

I'm still a back-mount guy although I do have my PRO vest and would never give it up. Certainly clearance is tougher with the back mount but I feel that my stamina and comfort is increased with that system.

[Charles King]

Well said CP.